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well, then came joseph ratzinger, a german, but then at that point they could choose to a non-italian being pope. if our catholics, and especially catholics in rome and in italy, are they ready for a noneuropean? yes, i think so. they have come to understand that what really matters is the passion, the stamina, the strength, and the message that a pope sends out and how he delivers it. they embrace that and understand that the world is now a worldwide church. that the catholic church is now a worldwide church. yes, i think there are ready. they're not -- i don't think they are particularly too bothered about the fact that the next pope will be italian. they just want to know who is next because that's always a massive event here in rome. when the white smoke comes out of the sistine chapel, people will be charging here down the big street from rome into the vatican because everyone wantston who their new pope is. that's exciting. >> george, you talk about the challenges that the first has faced. is that going to be part of this conversation, the scandals here, and else where in the wo
well, then came joseph ratzinger, a german, but then at that point they could choose to a non-italian being pope. if our catholics, and especially catholics in rome and in italy, are they ready for a noneuropean? yes, i think so. they have come to understand that what really matters is the passion, the stamina, the strength, and the message that a pope sends out and how he delivers it. they embrace that and understand that the world is now a worldwide church. that the catholic church is now a...
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so cardinal joseph ratzinger seemed an obvious choice. this time there is no such obvious front runner and no simple, single, overriding issue that's driving the reflection, which is why a lot of us believe this conclave may be a little bit more complex and it may take a little bit longer for the cardinals to reach consensus. >> all right. all right, john, let's come back here to new york for a second. melinda, let me ask you, when you're looking at this from the outside, other than the timing which you know i'm completely obsessed with, that's mainly because i have to figure out when i have to get to rome, but when we're looking at what might be different this time, that's the excitement, right? what are you looking at from the outside? what do you think the possibilities here are? and are we being too excited? >> in terms of the candidates or in terms of what we're going to see going forward? >> because pope benedict has created precedent here by saying i'm resigning, this is the best thing for the church, will that idea, what's best fo
so cardinal joseph ratzinger seemed an obvious choice. this time there is no such obvious front runner and no simple, single, overriding issue that's driving the reflection, which is why a lot of us believe this conclave may be a little bit more complex and it may take a little bit longer for the cardinals to reach consensus. >> all right. all right, john, let's come back here to new york for a second. melinda, let me ask you, when you're looking at this from the outside, other than the...
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. >> joseph ratzinger, cardinal ratzinger then was 78 years old when he got this job and was actually looking at retirement. he was ready to step down. >> right. >> but obviously the vatican calls -- >> he was moving to boca. hey, how do you know, mika brzezinski, that your church, the catholic church, is in serious, serious trouble? >> how? >> when mike barnicle is speaking. when he becomes -- >> when i'm at the pope desk. >> when he's at the pope desk. where is pat buchanan? hey, somebody call pat buchanan and wake him up. what's up next? >>> well, we're going to talk about the state of the union next. coming up, deputy majority whip congressman tom cole will join us. also former deputy campaign manager for the obama campaign, stephanie cutter will be here to preview the president's state of the union address. and later, we'll talk to nbc news chief white house correspondent, chuck todd. and "new york times" columnist gail collins. and in just a few minutes, sports columnist for the "new york daily news," mike lupica joins the table. he knows it's true. look at him, he looks guilty.
. >> joseph ratzinger, cardinal ratzinger then was 78 years old when he got this job and was actually looking at retirement. he was ready to step down. >> right. >> but obviously the vatican calls -- >> he was moving to boca. hey, how do you know, mika brzezinski, that your church, the catholic church, is in serious, serious trouble? >> how? >> when mike barnicle is speaking. when he becomes -- >> when i'm at the pope desk. >> when he's at the...
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ratzinger was the last time around. but there are perhaps two or three figures one could say are the next tier down. cardinal angelo shokoal, cardin mark willet, who runs the power for bishops, a deeply spiritual figure and perhaps leonardo sandri, a career vatican official a man that brings the first world and the third world together. we shall see if one of those guys breaks through. >> reporter: indeed and, of course, there may even be a cardinal from the third world, the developing world, who might be elevated. we're going to interview the american cardinal timothy dolan in a few hours from now. we'll have that live on cnn and he's used an awful lot of colorful language to insist he's not the next pope. but his name is constantly cropping up as well. soledad? >> we're already taking bets on who the next successor will be, i'm not surprised about that, guys, thank you. pope benedict xvi will be staying at the picturesque castel gandolfo, southeast of rome. it's a small castle thtle and b anderson is there for us now.
ratzinger was the last time around. but there are perhaps two or three figures one could say are the next tier down. cardinal angelo shokoal, cardin mark willet, who runs the power for bishops, a deeply spiritual figure and perhaps leonardo sandri, a career vatican official a man that brings the first world and the third world together. we shall see if one of those guys breaks through. >> reporter: indeed and, of course, there may even be a cardinal from the third world, the developing...